So I'm a man of the 21st century, I'm technologically adept, I get my news from the web (and the Daily Show of course), and I even maintain a blog, as you can see. I love advances that allow all people to live more happily, live more full lives, participating in the world around them. I support this!!
I have heard for that last few years complaints from news organizations that getting one's news from the "blogsphere" is dangerous, since anyone can post anything they want to as fact, there's no checking of information or sources, and generally people throw up subjective crap all the time, in an attempt to further their own position or just out of naivete. This problem of course extends to the musings on personal web logs as well they say. I agreed with this statement as it is sound in logic and stands to reason, but I had never experienced first hand the phenomena.
I will name no names, I will take prisoners and not tell where they are, my lips are sealed, but suffice to say that in the past few days of perusing some blogs I have been a bit horrified. The arm-chair referee has given way in this century to the computer-chair scholar, dispensing lessons and advice about all sorts of topics they don't have the capacity to tackle. I have been reading with my jaw on the ground all morning, and something must be said.
I am in education for a living, and while I may be teaching "just" music lessons I am interested in education as a whole. A good free public education in this country is truly one of the things that has made it so great. The fact that support for that education system has been waning in recent decades is made oh too evident by much of the material floating the blogsphere, and the drivel unceasingly dripping from the mouth of our President (our PRESIDENT people!!!! who voted for this man?!?).
Listen to me. To be uneducated is not a good thing, no matter how you spin it. You are a valid and lovely human being, without a doubt, but it is not a good thing. We complain that people are "ignorant" when they hold beliefs that reason dictates are ridiculous, like say "gay people are of the devil and are destroying the moral fiber of this country". We can get away with complaining of that persons ignorance in that case, there is support from all us homos backing up the fact. But it is a dangerous game making the claim that someone else is stupid for something they say, they offend quickly and often become violent, and many times there is no group to support you any more.
But I am making that claim, right here, right now. People, we are being stupid. We're acting like idiots, we are allowing ourselves to remain uneducated and are making decisions that are bad. We are all products of our environments, without a doubt, and this country is letting us down in many ways. I am doing my part to help that, or at least I'll die trying. But we are also self-sufficient individuals, adults who can make decisions on our own. Pick up a book. Take a class. Start with the assumption that you know nothing, and then LEARN. Blathering idiocy has no place in the oval office, it has no place anywhere. Support your local schools, support your teachers, support your students. The world depends on it.
18 comments:
The news org. prob. are jealous because no one wants to listen to their biased crap anymore.
Which news org. are you talking about CBS, CBN, FOX etc.?
I don't think most thinking humans take anything they read on the net too seriously.
Unless they are the types who want to believe in area 59(?), bigfoot or Nessie.
Personally, I have found the people I've come in contact with on the net read more than the general pop. I've met.
I have no friends or family that read or think about issues as much as I do(not bragging, just saying the truth). It has been nice to find people to dicuss or debate with.
I hope i haven't taken your post wrong. Maybe you weren't plain anough. If I did I apologize in advance
The news organization I'm speaking of would be National Public Radio, more specifically All Things Considered and Meet the Press on NPR. Not the most jealous bunch.
Again I think you're being naive l>t, people do take what they read on the net seriously, information gets pulled off the net constantly as fact, many times by the major news organizations.
The point of this post was far less about news organizations or peoples' acceptance of internet information, and more about the problem behind both; insufficient education. Education that would not only allow people to better understand the information being presented to them, and would also prevent people from posting ill-conceived ideas.
That is perhaps where my own naivete steps in, thinking that merely an education will help these things. I have to believe though that a more capable population would act differently, the evidence seems to point that direction. I can't be the only one who is horrified by much of what I see.
ps it's Area 51.
Well, if you mean by education, D.A.R.E. or some of those other public school things. I don't believe they work. A waste of Tax payers moneys.
& NPR is not any less biased then FOX, tho, they are more reputable.
In my opinion the best thing that could be done for people is to teach them to THINK.
I think this is a good forum for that.
You are helping me to think about what you're saying & hopefully visa versa.
You might think I have a handicap in that I am not educated. But, I've never used it as an excuse for not thinking, reasoning, etc.
Give me an example of a ill-concived idea.
Both of you are snobs. You think that prob. because you are educated that you have some kind of leg up on everyone. Well, my dears there is more to life then being not smelly or color cordinated or spelling challaged.
If people weren't so predjudiced as a whole maybe something could be done.
What makes you think you are so better then your students, LIL?
Stricken to your very soul? what a load of crap.
THINK.
No need for an example of an ill-conceived idea, it's been given for me.
Lil, thank you for your support, I agree with you completely. My e-mail is posted on my profile at the moment, can you send me a mail, I have a note to send you.
l>t, you have missed the point again, for the third time in a row, on the same topic. An ill-conceived idea? Attacking and berating people who are offering their help to those who need it, that's the best example I could have thought of. I don't see anywhere Lil saying she was "better than her students", nor did I catch even the slightest suggestion of that. In fact I felt quite the opposite.
I'm holding off writing a complete rebuttal to your ill-conceived comments. Instead I will say this. You have made it clear that you don't understand. You've also made it clear that you have no desire to understand and have decided that personal attacks are necessary. Not on my blog, my dear. Your comments can easily be erased, keep it nice or keep it to yourself.
One more thought. I am all for thinking, and I'm all for the web as a resource to aid in that thinking. I recommend checking out dictionary.com, it's an amazing resource for anyone who is spelling challaged. I use it constantly.
Well i guess that's going to happen when the teeming smelly masses meet their educated polite uppers.
We will be the idiots undeserving of our children that you all deserve to educate.
I suppose if i had a higher education I'd know what you were talking about & not keep missing the boat?
I'm sure you both mean well & calling names isn't something even I find ecceptable. I should of just said I didn't understand & please explain, instead of giving a knee-jerk response.
I apolgize for that but, not for my 'intuition' about your line of thinking.
you see how easy it is to let predujudices factor into thinking?
I will always see my self as one of the uneducated masses, & am not ashamed of who i am. what i do have is tenacity & a decent mind that wants to learn & am using this forum to do so. I am not young or with funds so Higher education is not an option for me.
So I learn any way I can.
I think Sean set me off by criticizing Blogs as (this is how I saw it)a new form of ignorance for the ignorant.(Sean, I know you didn't use those exact words, O.K.?) I will concede that I saw what i've been conditioned to see when people start (My preception again) putting down those w/less education then themselves.
But, I am not so pig-headed as to be unreasonable.
I don't think we have to agree to disagree.
I think it has more to do with preceptions of others then intellectual thought.
I'm not an idiot who doesn't realize the powers education has to make life better & the majority of my contemporarys I'm sure feel the same.
it is the condensending attitude that is my problem & the problem of my peers, I think.
Lil is far kinder in her response than I will be.
l>t, you lack perspective and understanding. You offer empty and often back handed apologies which are no apology what so ever. You're obviously insecure about your lack of education, yet have decided that embracing it, romanticizing it and defending it are the correct things to do.
You are wrong.
There are no ivory towers here, no snobbish feelings of superiority, only frustration and grief over this growing problem. And it IS a problem, as has been made more than evident in these posts. When we can no longer come together and have an intelligent, educated discussion on a topic it is a problem. When there is a break down in respect and empathy, there is a problem.
To be able to think and to be educated are two different things. You revel in claiming to posses the first and revel in claiming to reject the second. To me that is like holding up your right arm for the world to see and wiggling the stump of your left arm with pride. You have missed the boat, and you don't even realize it.
From now on all your posts will be screened and I will hold the final decision as to whether they remain on my blog. I've noticed your numerous apologies to other people you have slighted on other blogs, I'm not interested in one. Having to make so many apologies would seem to be proof that you haven’t learned not to make the mistake in the first place.
My god, is everyone a complete moron around here?
I've had a profile since Nov. 2004 at the insistance of a friend of mine so I could read his blog.
My own blog has been up since Sept. 2005. If math doesn't escape you that's two months.
I am a public school victim, er student as well, and yet seem to have actually learned what they were trying to teach.
Again, Crow, my point has been made for me with your post better than I could have made it. Your uninformed claims and accusations are exactly the kind of tripe that's got me bothered, thank you for your addition to the dialog, it's been very eye opening.
what did i say on my last comment that was so offensive to you?
& what is wrong about apologizing?
I was trying to have a meeting Of the minds.
wouldn't you agree that some educators are condensending?
Come on Sean.
You are the one being unreasonable now.
BTW, was Lil just being nice or did she mean what she said?
You are implying she was just being nice?
Sorry, I had a typo :)
It's hard to think that no education is better than being educated. Our system of formal education isn't perfect though, and in the end it's up to the person to both take advantage of it and then use it.
Sean seems to be complaining that people are willing to take a lot at face value. I think he's right. Teaching people to think critically and ask a simple question ("What's your source for that claim?") would eliminate a lot of the BS people try to present as fact.
Sean...I like the blog...and the name...
I've read all the posts in this discussion and, wow;
everyone is kinda goin' off the handle here...
i luv the fact that you kats are passionate about education, we need it...
perhaps, and this is just a suggestion, we'd see less conflict if we were discussing potential solutions?
everyone's points are valid:
1-ppl aren't necessarily being "snobs," however, they may be forgetting how messages can be miscommunicated, as well as misinterpreted; it's up to both sides to strive to be better communicators and better listeners/interpreters
2-i wanted to point out the fact that a formal education guarantees nothing in terms of effectiveness/productivity; it's still up to the "educated" to properly apply knowledge in practical endeavors AND do so in a way that isn't influenced by the subjective beliefs/stereotypes put in place previous to higher education - i think few people ever accomplish this due to the tendency to point fingers rather than reflecting on self...
then again, there's always that "social" problem where if you think about yourself too much, you're perceived as a narcissist...
here's a suggestion:
1-national stop work month, the nation goes on strike, marches to washington, holds an immediate constitutional convention, institutes a true democracy run by volunteers instead of paid representatives, tears down the budget completely and rewrites it so that defense spending is cut by $400 billion dollars...then, the citizens redistribute the $400 billion to build a universal health care system that citizens can take advantage of (receive free benefits for life) upon receiving a college degree, we at least half the $400 billion on restructuring public education in a way that improves efficiency NOT through standards of measure, but through utilizing the findings of modern psychology so as to make education more appealing for the student and more conducive to absorption of knowledge...
peace,
sean
Meet you half way to what l>t? Half way to your idea that education is over rated? or half way to your idea that those that are educated are snobs because they desire others to be educated as well? or maybe you would like me to say that education doesn’t make the person, and that we are all people worthy of respect whatever our education level is. But wait, I did say that, and if I may quote myself; “You are a valid and lovely human being, without a doubt.” Perhaps you thought that was tongue in cheek, but it was not, it was sincere. That being said, if I need my appendix out I will go to someone with an education to remove it, if I need legal advice I will go to someone with a law degree, if I want to know about the reasons for this war we are fighting and the ramifications of it I will go to primary sources and use every bit of education and life experience I have to make sense of it. If I want to know how you felt about your son having to go to the hospital, I will ask YOU, because you are the #1 expert on how you felt about that experience.
Life experience. What I think you may be doing is confusing education and experience, which are two very different things. Some have neither, some have both, some have more of one than the other. To use the arm analogy again, each is an arm, education and experience, available for you to use, your ability to Think is what holds the two together and makes them work in harmony. Limit either and you limit what you can do in life. Shun either one and do it at your own risk and your own folly.
To answer some of the questions and statements you have posed that I have not already tried to answer;
“I have found the people I've come in contact with on the net read more than the general pop(ulation) I've met.”- quantity of reading does not prove understanding. You can read a book and not have the capacity to understand what is in it.
“Well, if you mean by education, D.A.R.E. or some of those other public school things.”- no, I do not mean D.A.R.E., no one every mentioned a specific program, especially one so universally deemed ineffective as DARE. By education I mean sitting through 12 years of school, math, English, history classes, listening to and remembering what is being said then applying that knowledge to your life.
“You think that prob. because you are educated that you have some kind of leg up on everyone.”- we do. I can get jobs that you are not qualified for. I can do tasks that you cannot. I can understand things put in front of me that you cannot. I can adapt to and learn new things that you cannot, all because of the knowledge I gained in my education. And it was my choice.
“What makes you think you are so better then your students, LIL? Stricken to your very soul? what a load of crap.” - This statement has perhaps pissed me off the most, that you would attack Lilli so baselessly. Where did you invent this notion that she thinks she is “better than” her students? Is she more educated? Yes. Is she trying very hard to pass on that education so that those students can be better prepared to enter the rest of their lives? Yes. Does she think she is “better than” them? I have no idea where you came up with that. And don’t you dare call what she feels in her soul crap, you haven’t the foggiest clue how she feels, and it is wildly insulting to claim that you do.
“Well i guess that's going to happen when the teeming smelly masses meet their educated polite uppers.”- another invention, how you came to this statement I still don’t know. I do seem to remember Lil’s statement of “I actually see the validity of graffiti (gasp!) because to me it is one of the truest reflections of what is happening in society: the good, the bad, the ugly, the smelly and spelling challenged, the poorly color-coordinated”, in which all the descriptors are refering to ABSTRACT QUALITIES OF SOCIETY, not smelly spelling challenged, poorly color-coordinated PEOPLE. Break down in communication and understanding is to blame here, and on who’s side? It seemed quite clear to me.
“I am not young or with funds so Higher education is not an option for me.”- higher education is for everyone, of every age, and every income. There is a VAST amount of money out there to pay for your school, every cent of it, without having to pay a dime back. The less money you have, the more eligible you are for that money. Funding is no excuse for not seeking more education if you desire it.
“I think Sean set me off by criticizing Blogs as (this is how I saw it)a new form of ignorance for the ignorant.(Sean, I know you didn't use those exact words, O.K.?)”- That is “how (you) saw” it, and how you decided you would paraphrase and put words into my mouth. I criticized blog CONTENT and the ignorance included in that content, in the same way I would want to do with any source of information. The form of the Blog is a wonderful new tool in my opinion, otherwise I wouldn’t have one. Don’t we all want content that is truthful and well informed on these blogs, with content’s strength in objectivity and not subjectivity? Perhaps that is where I am not meeting you half-way. I do believe in the importance of the objective experience, but popular culture today places an extreme amount of emphasis on the subjective, to the point where people can rarely tell the difference anymore.
“it is the condensending attitude that is my problem & the problem of my peers”- Perseption has been a word thrown about in this debate quite a bit, and I will use it here. How much of the condesending attitude that you see is your own perseption of the situation? I have had people say I was being condescending for telling them there were wrong notes in the piece they were playing. No, the notes were wrong, they need to be fixed, it’s my job to point that out, it’s their job to fix them. Because their ego was tread upon is more their problem than mine in that case, and their perception of my words as condescending is their problem too. I will do everything I can to educate them with respect and dignity. But wrong is wrong, especially in that case.
“I think it has more to do with preceptions of others then intellectual thought”- it’s true, this conversation has become more about perception than about intellectual thought, which is exactly the problem. Fiction in the guise of fact is an intellectual problem, not perception, and it is the problem I was trying to address with this blog post. If someone wants to offer their opinion on something in their blog, I am quite ok with that, and I will be ready to offer my opinion as well, and we can all discuss our perceptions of the issue. But when facts are misconstrued or blatantly disreguarded I take issue. When that misinformation is then defended as the right of the person to express, I take serious issue.
“what is wrong about apologizing?”- I will only hear apologies from one of my students for not practicing for so long before I will sit them down and tell them that no amount of apologising will change the fact they have not learned that they need to practice. Apologies loose their meaning when the same mistake is made over and over again. Neither Lilli nor I said anything to attack you l>t, and yet you again decided that to attack us would be a good idea. I gather from posts on other sites that you have done the same to others. I don’t want your apology because I want you to stop attacking people when you feel trapped, the time for apologies is over. Just like I don’t want to hear “I’m sorry for not practicing” from my student anymore, I just want him to start practicing so we can get something done.
“wouldn't you agree that some educators are condensending?”- yes. Are you advocating throwing the baby out with the bath water because some educators are condesending? Education on a whole I have found to be quite a altruistic and compassionate field, and at the same time it is dismissed and looked upon with scorn because someone’s ego felt slighted along the way. We are here to help, and yet we get told “who do you think you are that you can help me?!?” I’ve addressed that issue in a previous post, “The State of Help”. If you have thoughts on that topic feel free to post them there.
“BTW, was Lil just being nice or did she mean what she said? You are implying she was just being nice?”- no, I was saying that she was being nicer than I desired to be, which is exactly what I said. Don’t let your insecurity shade your perception of my words. If you want to know what Lilli was thinking I think you had better ask her, I’m not privy to her thoughts.
“Did you notice your slight when you called everyone around here a complete moron?”- I did not call everyone a moron, I asked “is everyone a complete moron around here?” in response to ridiculously unimformed accusations and statements made by Dancing Crow. It was hyperbolic, and I apologize. I will refrain from making statements such as that from now on. And you can quote me on that.
“You know I won't kiss your butt, no matter what”- NO ONE here is asking for that l>t, how you invent this stuff is beyond me. I do not kiss ass, I not looking for anyone else to either. To imply that that is what I am looking for is silly. What I am looking for is a conversation, one that sticks to the objective and shies away from the subjective. This conversation has done anything but that.
If anyone actually read this response to this point, I am sorry, I did not intend this blog post to create this kind of discussion.
L>t, I have put about half of what I think about your statements here, as I took issue with something in each and every sentence that you wrote. These where the ones I saw most relevent to the problem here.
Anyone can feel free to post whatever response you desire, but it will be kept decent, objective, and free of personal attacks, or it will be errased. If you have something to say that does not meet that requirements, post them on your own blog and leave a link here. You have every right to say whatever you want on your own blog. I have every right to censor you here at my blog.
Last night I thot I wasn't going to get past the first paragraph of your last post (thinking this whole thing was becoming pointless)but after sleeping on it decide to leave with a few parting words.
Maybe some of our problem lays in the definition of education?
You prehaps are thinking of something more formal, while I am thinking of ideas more independent.
I can look back & see where I've taken offense at words not intended offensive & have not been completely literal. But I don't think I've been nearly as off base as you keep implying.
I don't know why I said the butt kissing statement. Better to have said, I will stand on my feet & not be bullied into conforming.(I'm sure you can chop that in to little bitty bits)
Sean in your first paragraph(last post) You again accuse me of not valuing education.
I explained to you that, 'I was not an idiot who didn't realize the powers education has to make life better.'
I think we have different ways of saying things & are not understanding each other. It's a different sort of prejudice then race or gender prejudice but still real. (I'm not calling you names, so don't get huffy).
I'm glad you had a wonderful family that realized they needed to get up out of the muck.
& I wouldn't want to deny you, your right to your pride in getting an education.
But don't assume these things are avalible to everyone.
Your statement about every ones ableness to get education in this country is true to a point.
But it is a 'blanket statement.'
& that's all I have to say about all that.
Well Sean, I've determined to leave every disscusion having learned something worth taking along or something about myself.
I've learned here to be more careful in what I say. Think a little more. I've learned that I don't really like nasty arguments.
That I can stand up for myself & be nice(I'll take that one along in my pocket).
Also, thanks for not jumping all over my spelling & sentence structures.
I go w/no bad blood between us. Chow!
My blog is completely boring and I have almost 200 profile views. Just kidding. I agree with your post too Sean, but I still can speculate.
Howdy Paul, we can all speculate as to why there this many hits here, that many hits there, this level of education here, that level of ability there, this Wrathful God here, that Loving God there. But the ability to speculate is no proof of anything, there is much more beyond the speculation, like evidence, logic, and truth. There's a reason why speculation isn't allowed in the courtroom.
If "Fiction in the guise of fact is an intellectual problem," then the solution to that problem is, "Fact in the guise of fiction..."
The Truth is often hard to handle, best break it to the weak with a good story and a punchline, lest you be killed or martyred for your freedom to speak...
peace n whatnot,
sean (the other one),
aka Fresh Parmesan
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